Updated: 18 May 16
This is a continuation of an Integral Deep Listening interview of 'Putin’s Mystery Visit', which occurred on April 26, 2016, and was administered by Dr. Robert Thomsen using Joseph Dillard's IDL protocol.
11 May 16. Joseph Dillard (JND) then responded with valuable counsel. His comments are added on 11 May 16.
11 May 16. Joseph Dillard (JND) then responded with valuable counsel. His comments are added on 11 May 16.
If a second character had something especially important to tell you, which would it be? Vladimir Putin
Mr. Putin, are you a character in
Eugene’s dream? Yes
Mr. Putin, look out at the world from your perspective and tell us what you see. I see a world in great confusion and contradiction and moving in directions that are very troubling, especially to my own people and elsewhere. It is a very dangerous time.
Mr. Putin, would you please tell me what you look like and what you are doing? I have a great responsibility to my people to recover a reputation that has been tarnished and damaged by unfortunate decisions by my predecessors. It is my responsibility to bring stability and a new credibility and respect to my country, to my people, and to the greater
Slavic Enterprise. It is a historic
opportunity that I take very seriously. Russia
Mr. Putin, what do you like most about yourself in this experience? What are your strengths? I think I am very committed. I think I am intelligent. I think I am strong. I know who I am and where I am going and what my destiny and responsibility are.
Mr. Putin, what do you dislike most about yourself? Do you have weaknesses? What? I don’t know. I had a background that was very tough and sometimes irresponsible. I learned that in the trenches I made some difficult and sometime very troubling decisions, but I can’t let that dissuade me. I know I have faults, but I hope they are not too terrible to prevent me from doing my work.
Mr. Putin, what are your weaknesses, what are your faults? I think sometimes I make decisions too fast. It can be very embarrassing and troubling, and it can be very destructive in the long way, so I have to be careful. I am not careful enough.
Are there any other weaknesses? I think I have said enough.
Mr. Putin, what aspect of
Eugene do you represent or most closely
think I identify with his sense of destiny, his sense of purpose. He is sort of a mystical sense, a mystical
sense of self.
Mr. Putin, do you want to say anything more about that? No.
Mr. Putin, if you could be anywhere you wanted to be and take any form you desired, would you change? If so, how? No, I am here for a reason and I know it is very precise purpose. I am where I belong right at this moment.
Where are you at this moment? I have come to have conversation with Evgeny Nikolayevich. He doesn’t yet know what it is, but I am looking forward to coming to an understanding with him.
Mr. Putin, how would you score yourself 0-10 in the following categories?
Confidence 9.5 – There are times when I make decisions too fast, so I need some strong people around me to help me with this. It is difficult to find these people.
Compassion 7 – I certainly have compassion for my people. I do not have compassion for fools and for people who are trying to block our progress or who are trying to interfere with the destiny. But I can use my forces or resources in a strong way that you would not call compassionate.
Wisdom 7 – There are times I have made some unwise decisions, so I cannot claim great wisdom. I need wise advisors. It is hard to find them.
Acceptance 5 – I accept my people, I accept responsibilities. I don’t accept fools. I don’t accept traitors. I don’t accept people who are trying to take us over or are trying to manipulate us.
Peace of mind 5 – I would like to have greater peace but it all depends on what else is happening in the world. I feel responsible for much of this, so some of this is troubling to me.
Witnessing (No number) Well, I see a great destiny. I see the world in a grander way than most people. I see the past that has been greatly distorted and distorted, and in some cases vilified and not appreciated. I see a future. I see great possibilities technically creatively in the arts, music, as well as technology and architecture, and invention. It is a troubling but grand time too, to see, to understand what the world is.
Mr. Putin, if you scored tens in all six of these qualities, would you be different? If so, how? I think so. I think of some great Russian writers like Tolstoy and Dostoevsky. I admire Solzenichen, though he was a difficult person. I admire Pasturnak for the beauty of his writing and his understanding. I admire some of the great saints. One person comes to mind, that is Pavel Florinsky. Some of our wise people we have not treated well and we have lost the benefit of their great wisdom, so I . . . I am afraid I have lost the question.
The question is if you scored tens on all of the six qualities of confidence, compassion, wisdom, acceptance, peace of mind, and witnessing, how would you be different? I would be more of a leader for my people than I am now. I am having to grow. Sometimes it is difficult, but I wish I were a tens, as you say, more, so that I had a better connection to not only my people but also to other peoples, other countries. That is one of the reasons that I am here to talk to Evgeny Nikolayevich. He knows things. We have known him. That is why I am here. He knows things, and because we know him he has certain qualities that I wish to engage and discuss with him.
11 May 16. JND: I am hearing that Putin has come to learn from Eugene. Is that correct? (This is a theme I have seen in interviews that has surprised me and generally surprises the dreamer: there clearly exist innumerable perspectives that regard us as their guide, teacher or hope; many look to us to generate purpose, clarity and direction. When this message comes to us from figures that are in positions of vast authority, as Putin is, the challenge is how to accept the mantel and responsibilities of such leadership without moving into either grandiosity or avoidance.)
Mr. Putin, how would
life be different if he naturally scored like you? I think he would be
less happy than he is. He would be less
successful in his life than he is. I
don’t think he would like to score like me.
11 May 16. JND: Again, this sounds like the answer of a supplicant to me, of someone who is not viewing themselves as the answer but instead is coming looking for answers, for pieces of a puzzle that they think the dreamer has, whether he realizes it or not. (We generally do not see ourselves as having the answers.) But that is an assumption. How do you view it, Mr. Putin? Dr. Dillard, you have interesting and insightful things to say. I am always willing to listen to intelligent and well intended people. Evgeny Nikolayevich also has interesting and insightful things to say. Because of his unique heritage and experience, I have questions to ask of him. We will keep these just between us for the present.
Mr. Putin, if you could live
Eugene’s waking life for him, how would you
live it differently? This is impossible question.
I don’t have the wisdom or understanding to speak about this. I have nothing to offer him in the way he
lives his life. I have come to discuss
11 May 16. JND: Mr. Putin, it is clear that you want to have a conversation or conversations with Eugene, but not now and not in this format. How will Eugene know when he has respectfully responded appropriately to your request? How will he know when he has provided you with the information you think he has that you are wanting? He will know at the time.
Mr. Putin, if you could live
Eugene’s waking life for him today, would you
handle his life issues differently? If
so, how? (this
question was not asked)
Mr. Putin, what three life issues would you focus on if you were in charge of him? (this question was not asked.)
Mr. Putin, in what life situations would it be most beneficial for
to imagine that he is you and act as you would?
I think this is a stupid question! He would not act as I would. I cannot imagine this. It would be stupid.
JND: (Ditto to my comment above about some characters coming as supplicants rather than as role models.)
Mr. Putin, do you do drama? Do you get into playing the victim, persecutor, or rescuer? Yes, I do. I do drama, especially when I am making too quick decision. If I can react and then it might be troublesome to get out of this situation.
11 May 16. JND: And this is a good reason why Putin does not want Eugene to become him or live life from his perspective.
Mr. Putin, what is your secret for staying out of drama? I don’t. Actually I enjoy the drama. It makes the spice of life, you know. Why not? Poets thrive on drama. Artists thrive on drama. It is just stupid. Make art. Make drama, make opera, make poems, make literature, and what is a basketball game or a football game or a swimming if it is not drama? Competition is drama. It’s good. It’s good. Dancing is drama.
11 May 16. JND: Putin’s point is well taken. I would only add that there is a difference between getting into a role or activity and losing ourselves in it, losing our objectivity or our sense of who we are as someone separate from a relationship, a professional identity, a religion or political affiliation. Drama only becomes a problem when you find yourself in one of its three roles of victim, persecutor or rescuer.
Mr. Putin, you are imaginary. Why should
Eugene pay attention to anything you
Nikolayevich is aware of new dimensions that we value very much in our
country. Ask the question again,
Eugene pay attention to
anything you say? Because he knows that he perceives that we have something of
value for him. He also perceives that he
can offer us something of value. He
takes my appearance in his life, in his inner life, very seriously obviously,
and I am there deliberately to engage him in a level that he has been working
on for many, many years and for much of that time we have been aware of him.
Mr. Putin, why do you think that you are in
Eugene’s life? Because of what he
offers, potentially has to offer us.
That is why I am here, to discuss this.
How do you want to discuss this with him? I want to – we will have a conversation, just he and I, one to one. He will ask me questions. I will ask him questions. He will have something to say to me, I will have something to say to him. And this process that are asking now does not do this. I cannot do this as long as you are here making these sometimes stupid questions. I need to be alone with this man and you will need to get out and go away.
11 May 16. JND: A very strong, insistent directive!
I will do that when we are finished here, and I appreciate that.
11 May 16. JND: A great, respectful response!
Mr. Putin, how is
most likely to ignore what you are saying to him? He
will certainly not ignore what I am saying.
He takes me seriously. I take him
seriously. There is no way, no way that
this is possible. It is at the heart of
his own destiny, his own motivation. I
know this. I know this. We have studied him over a long period of
time. We know him well. He has been transparent. This is why we are attracted. We know him.
He is not hiding. We hide. He does not.
He does not need to hide. We
do. We would like to know more of his
11 May 16. JND: So it is a relationship of mutual respect. And yet we are hearing that Putin is a perspective that hides! This is ironic, because you cannot get to be much more public than Putin! While it is clear that he has kept aspects of his personal life private, mostly related to his daughters and wife when he was married, he has been very up-front with his attitudes, expectations and opinions, at least as best as I can tell. I find the real Putin pretty transparent, in that his conduct seems to me to pretty well reflect what he has said. One thing that this Putin has said that I have wondered about is that he sometimes does things too quickly. On the contrary, I have seen repeatedly how people complain that the real Putin is much too deliberative and is not decisive enough. I have not agreed with this assessment, but instead have seen him repeatedly give opponents enough rope to hang themselves. So I would think that Eugene has knowledge of a different Vladimir Putin than I have.
Mr. Putin, what would you recommend that he do about that? Nothing whatsoever. I trust him and I trust why I am here. Whatever is going on he is aware of.
11 May 16. JND: I hear considerable mutual respect!
Mr. Putin, why do you think
Eugene had this dream? I think it is he
yearning, and we have noticed this. We
have felt it, and we have felt that this is the time to make contact. I remember the time when he came to our
country and contacted one of our people, and proposed a conversation, proposed
a relationship, but it had to be done at a certain level, but that is what we
are talking about now. This was many
years ago during the millennium celebration year.
Mr. Putin, is there anything else that you would like to say to
Eugene? Oh, I have much to
say with Evgeny Nikolayevich, but not now and not with you.
Mr. Putin, thank you very much.
Joseph Dillard asks us to look back over the interview and list the specific recommendation that were made, and that would be to talk directly with Putin, and not through an IDL. Yeah.
Is there anything more that you would like to say? I don’t think so.
11 May 16. JND: At this point, Eugene, how are you feeling about this dream when you compare how you felt, what you thought about it, the assumptions you made about it first while you had the dream and then afterward, when you first remembered it? Good question, Joseph. I have developed greater knowledge of V.V.P. since the dream and because of your suggestions. However, the basic reason for his appearance in my inner life remains the same. My main concern is not to say too much.
11 May 16: JND: One other thing: The reason why Putin may want this in a private format is because he wants to know your secrets. This is not a private, secretive format! Just be sure that when you have your conversations with Putin that you ask him what secrets you have that he wants to know about, or tell him your secrets and see if any of them are what he wants to hear about or know about. Then keep it a secret, and only share with others those parts of the dialogue that Putin gives you permission to share. That is not about being mysterious; it is about respecting the relationship. Again, thank you for this counsel, Joseph. I do not yet know the kind of secrets he thinks I have that would be of any value to him, but I am mindful that we will have to agree on what to make public. I hope to make as much public as possible because of my own belief it will be useful to my own people. But, it remains to be seen how this will play out. I can sense within all kinds of conversations and exchanges going on at deeper psychological and spiritual levels in me as well as in him.
14 May 16. Anon1 said
I'm surprised you post so much re Putin, given that your inner P wants it to be private, and Dillard seems to agree. I can understand why you would want to write it (and more), but puzzle about posting it.
I replied: If you read the last post [above] in this three-post thread again, you will see that there is a one-on-one dialogue now in process, which isn't posted and won't be posted unless "V.V.P." and I eventually agree on it. We have yet to get this agreement negotiated.
For the time being this blog post thread ends here.